Lee Elder

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Posts by Lee Elder

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  11

  Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sacrifice

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  jehovahs witnesses and child sacrifice .

  for the most part jehovahs witnesses are viewed in their communities as law abiding citizens and neighborly.

  most of us would never imagine that this religious organization of people teach and promote a theology which, in effect, sacrifices lives, even of children.

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  Lee Elder

  That the leaders acknowledge the sacrifice of these children is
  evidenced by the way they are glorifed in WT publications, effectively
  hailed as modern day martyrs.

  Lee
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  16

  Do You Really Want Reform, Or...

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...do you want an end to the entire organization of jehovah's witnesses?.

  i'm guessing there is so much money involved, we couldn't hope to see an end to them, but that's what needs to happen imho.

  after all, jim and tammy faye bakker had lots of money associated with their church, and a theme park complete with hotels to boot and they're all gone.

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  Lee Elder

  The WTS will as in the past continue to change and
  remake itself in order to survive. Call it reform
  or whatever you wish to call it but in my opinion
  the WTS will be around for a very long time. They
  have a marketable product that millions of people
  want. Like other corporations, they will change their
  product when the market or the government demands
  change. Oh they'll fuss about it, turn loose the spin
  doctors to say it isn't so, but in the end, "light
  will flash up", and the modern day ark of Jehovah
  will slowly "tack" in the wind. For those who step
  out of the ark, however, they'll find that they
  don't drown because there isn't any water after all ;-)

  Lee
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  12

  Thanks for the support, a farewell

  by mikepence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had resolved in my mind to leave the world of witnesses and former witnesses behind.

  then september 11th happened, and this community was a wonderful support.

  then the un fiasco happened, and i was amused.

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  Lee Elder

  sorry we never got together - best wishes for a bright
  and prosperous future

  Lee
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  3

  One JW reaction

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i spoke with one brother who is still active this morning.

  he tells me that there is a major.

  reaction among some jws - especially sisters.

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  Lee Elder

  I spoke with one brother who is still active this morning. He tells me that there is a major
  reaction among some JWs - especially sisters. One in the congregation who had been
  raped when very young (not a JW at the time) was nearly hysterical to learn that this
  kind of thing went on in the organization. He was on the phone till nearly 1 A.M. trying
  to help her.

  I think it is very difficult to gauge the impact and as this one incident illustrates, this kind
  of thing opens old wounds and is liable to stir up a significant reaction - especially among
  victims or those who have had experienced similar trauma. I imagine that some elders
  will be very busy and the boys in service will probably be overwhelmed.

  Let's just hope that the pedophiles will be forced to find another refuge.

  Lee
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  7

  Children, Advice, Agency and $$$$$$$

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society has occupied an enormously important place in the lives of millions.

  i believe this is especially true for those raised in the religion.

  based on the wts published statements, the teaching of wts representatives and their parents, jw children are methodically indoctrinated to believe that the watchtower is god's organization - his channel for communicating with mankind.

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  Lee Elder

  The costs associated with a legal challenge are enormous. It will take a very special
  set of circumstances to put these actions into play but it is being done on the pedophilia
  issue already and my belief is that we will see more - perhaps many more actions
  in the future, especially if some precedents are won.
• 
  21

  Here is the plan

  by the follower in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok... here is the plan.

  i moved to this congregation years ago, but when i came it was the same secretary then as it is now.

  when i arrived he just said "here is my address, give it to the secretary in your old congregation and tell him to send me your records.

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  Lee Elder

  The system can be manipulated. Some pedophiles have probably worked it very well. I'm not inclined
  to post how someone can permanently obtain their records for that reason. Instead, I would suggest
  the following. Choose a congregation that is some distance from where you live. Start attending meetings
  there and ask for your records to be moved - then just fade away. The elders will quickly grow tired of
  making long drives to "shepherd" you. If they try to move your records back tell them that you were stumbled
  by the brothers at that hall and want nothing to do with them. That should do it in most cases.

  Lee
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  7

  Children, Advice, Agency and $$$$$$$

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower society has occupied an enormously important place in the lives of millions.

  i believe this is especially true for those raised in the religion.

  based on the wts published statements, the teaching of wts representatives and their parents, jw children are methodically indoctrinated to believe that the watchtower is god's organization - his channel for communicating with mankind.

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  Lee Elder

  The Watchtower Society has occupied an enormously important place in the lives of millions. I believe this is especially true for those raised in the religion. Based on the WTS published statements, the teaching of WTS representatives and their parents, JW children are methodically indoctrinated to believe that the Watchtower is God's organization - his channel for communicating with mankind. It is only reasonable to conclude that this creates an enormous responsibility for the organization to act in the best interest of these children.

  JW children are literally inundated with advice from the Watchtower Society on every imaginable subject and if they are to please their parents and avoid being labeled as worldly and shunned, they must carefully follow the advice of the WTS. The level of coercion is significant and while society will generally condone this type of control when it is in the child's best interest - I believe that is becoming very clear that the actions of the WTS are frequently not in JW children's best interest.

  The WTS has placed itself in the role of divinely authorized spirit
  directed advisor, counselor and agent as a brief survey of their writings indicate. One of the ways that courts have recognized the creation of agency relationships is when one party in the relationship offers advice. Here are a few examples of where the WTS has used this expression:

  *** w71 9/1 526 Fortify Yourself So as to Maintain Integrity ***
  "Contrary to the advice of the organization of Jehovah's witnesses..."

  *** km 2/84 4 Expanding Your Ministry as a Regular Pioneer ***
  "God's Word and spirit, along with the good advice offered by Jehovah's organization..."

  *** g92 5/22 27 The Truth Has Set Me Free ***
  "By applying the therapy along with the good advice from Jehovah's organization..."

  *** g81 10/8 14 The Real Brotherhood of Man Today ***
  "Bryan Wilson, professor at Oxford University, England, made a study of "the recent rapid growth" of the Witnesses in Japan. He wrote: "Witnesses offer a wide range of practical advice . . . "

  By advising millions of persons on a whole range of issues, the WTS has likely created an agency relationship with its members. Once this point is established, the WTS then legally owes a fiduciary responsibility towards those whom it advises (its principals).

  In addition to clergy, other common examples of agency relationships are ones we have with our lawyer, physician, accountant, real estate agent, etc. The courts set a high standard of what is required of those who act as agents. Here is a brief look at the standard and some examples related to the WTS:

  Loyalty

  In a fiduciary relationship, the WTS would be required to demonstrate loyalty towards its members - acting in their best interest. This requires their being entirely open and not keeping any information from members that has any bearing on the relationship. Does the WTS have a problem in this regard? I believe it does since they have worked diligently to prevent members from accessing information that could allow them to objectively evaluate its claims and advice.

  Are WTS appointed elders who have advised Jehovah's Witness parents not to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities acting in the best interest of the parents or the child? Clearly not! Furthermore, these elders have given very bad advice for while some states may not require members of the clergy to report child abuse; all 50 states require parents, family members or friends to report. So in most cases JW elders, at the direction of the WTS, encouraged and at times insisted that the law be disobeyed.

  Skill and Care

  An agent is under a special duty to exercise more than an ordinary degree of skill and care. Consider how this relates to the WTS medical advice on the use of blood or various blood products. Life and death decisions are being made based upon the WTS analysis of the scientific and medical facts concerning the use of blood.

  I believe that careful analysis of the WTS published statements concerning its position on the use blood clearly show that the WTS has either misrepresented the facts, or they have negligently failed to carefully research the available scientific literature and have provided millions of persons with bad medical advice. Following this advice has led thousands to premature death.

  With regard to child abuse, it is becoming apparent that the leaders have failed to exercise even an "ordinary" degree of skill and care in protecting Jehovah's Witness children from pedophiles. The emphasis has rather been on protecting the image of the Watchtower Society and perhaps its assets.

  Full Disclosure

  One who advises or acts as an agent on behalf of another is required by law to make a full disclosure of all of the facts. Again, it can be easily demonstrated that the WTS has not complied with this legal requirement. Repeatedly they disclose only those facts that support the current WTS blood policy and they distort or withhold important information that should be made available to members who are facing life and death choices. Additionally, they go so far as to threaten, intimidate and coerce members so that they will not even seek outside information to supplement the medical advice they are receiving from the WTS.

  Upon careful review, I believe that the WTS actions would violate the generally held moral standards of most communities and hence they are guilty of moral turpitude. It appears to me that any number of torts have been committed, and it is probably just a matter of time before we see claims against the WTS for wrongful death and possibly criminal charges in some jurisdictions. The actions related to child abuse have already begun.

  Once the attorneys begin to see the potential for large awards and the WTS deep pockets, a flood of litigation will ensue. I have just briefly touched on one area of the law that I am somewhat familiar with and I imagine there are many other legal remedies available.

  It is unfortunate that it has come to this but nothing else seems to get the attention of the leaders of the WTS. They are captives of a concept. For generations, Jehovah's Witnesses have encouraged singleness and held out work in the full time service as the highest calling. They have sent their young men to Bethel, Gilead and other WT assignments. In the organization, family and children have never been a priority but rather a distraction from full time service to Jehovah God.

  These youngsters grew up and became the leaders of the organization. Can any of us really be that surprised by what we observe in this broken, dysfunctional system we call the Watchtower Society? Even the leaders are victims, as is so often the case with child abuse, and abuse others in turn.

  Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization must change their priorities and place their children at the top of the list. It's my hope that the current scandal will open the eyes as well as hearts and minds of many JWs. That would be an important first step in addressing the problems in the Watchtower leadership.
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  30

  Bill Bowens Hearing.....

  by ISP in

  1. social
  2. current

  .....is ok according to his doctor.. isp

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  Lee Elder

  A "Star Chamber" functions in secrecy. Turn on the light
  of public scrutiny and the rats are scared back to their
  hole for fear they will be seen for what they truly are.

  Lee
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  9

  True prophecy about the WTS and a novel approach

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i sit back and watch the pedophilia scandal unfold, it occurs to me that someone connected to the watchtower got it right - they prophesied what we are seeing.

  my friend jim penton in "apocalypse delayed" wrote about the impact of "brain drain" on the organization.

  no organization can afford to continually lose its brightest members, yet that is exactly what the wts has done for years.. what is the price of this constant "dumbing down"?

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  Lee Elder

  I promise to proof read and spell check in the future .

  Lee
• 
  9

  True prophecy about the WTS and a novel approach

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i sit back and watch the pedophilia scandal unfold, it occurs to me that someone connected to the watchtower got it right - they prophesied what we are seeing.

  my friend jim penton in "apocalypse delayed" wrote about the impact of "brain drain" on the organization.

  no organization can afford to continually lose its brightest members, yet that is exactly what the wts has done for years.. what is the price of this constant "dumbing down"?

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  Lee Elder

  As I sit back and watch the pedophilia scandal unfold, it occurs to me that someone connected to the Watchtower got it right - they prophesied what we are seeing. Who? My friend Jim Penton in "Apocalypse Delayed" wrote about the impact of "Brain Drain" on the organization. No organization can afford to continually lose its brightest members, yet that is exactly what the WTS has done for years.

  What is the price of this constant "dumbing down"? It has to be the inability to effectively evaluate and respond to crisis. The pedophilia scandal is a very good example. Take a look at how poorly the WTS has handled the situation. It is a snowball hurling down the slope completely out of control at this point and practically every thing they do or say escalates the situation! To quote Dr. Phil: "they couldn't be any dumber if someone cut off their head." I think Alan F. likened them to "Gog of Magog" with hooks in their jaws being dragged exactly to a point where they don't want to go - almost enough to make some of us rethink the role that God might play in human affairs.

  It is an amazing thing to behold - the ship is on fire and listing.

  My prediction:

  Probabilities favor the WTS losing thousands and thousands of members over this issue - 1975 could pale by comparison. Some very serious reforms could come out of this debacle. I find myself wondering whether this is the time to reach out to some of the JWs I know.

  For those who like me are still in good standing, it would be very simple to say something like:

  "I've never spoke to you about why I've put some distance between myself
  and the organization. If you would like to know, watch the Dateline
  program on the 28th. If will give you an opportunity to see some of the
  things that go on behind the scenes that I could not support."

  I'm not recommending that anyone do this, but can you imagine the backlash if all of the former elders who've done "the fade" made a dozen phone calls? Maybe its time to make a collective statement. Just a thought - I suppose it could backfire too. What do you think - I'd like to know.

  Lee